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"Sal-FreeTM" means an ingredient or product does not contain any salicylates. It is a reserved term. * A trademark of Guai-Support.
Warning:
Read
About Salicylates
before purchasing products NOT listed in these data bases.
Other Data Bases
Home Made Sal-FreeTM products
Upkeep Tesa Marcon: October 7, 2005
Contents
Forums Making your own products is fun! It is also a great way to ensure that the things you use are sal-free, and save money at the same time. There is a huge amount of detailed information on the internet and in books, so I will keep this brief and focus on the sal-free issues, still giving you enough information to start making a few simple things on your own. The first section is a list of relevant websites, followed by an overview of sal-free ingredients and techniques, and there are other sections on each type of product. Websites, Suppliers & Information Suppliers: 1) The Chemistry Store. Great US supplier for soap making and general chemicals, has *Sal-free bases for liquid soaps and shampoos. This means you only have to add your own water, fragrances, oils, etc. and you have cheap sal-free liquid soap or shampoo! Lots of information as well. http://www.chemistrystore.com/ 2) Pigment Lady - best known for colorants - I have found Lori very helpful http://members.aol.com/pigmntlady/ 3) Best known for good quality soapmaking fragrances, but have other ingreds as well: http://www.sweetcakes.com/ 4) From Nature with Love Good total site with all supplies, info, RECIPES,and discussion list: http://www.from-nature-with-love.com/soap/ 5) Mountain Sage all supplies, great info on making soap and lotions/balms, RECIPES, famous for their on-line lye and fragrance calulators (a must for making soap): http://www.the-sage.com/index.html 6) Soapcrafters all supplies, good info and a great mailing list: http//www.soapcrafters.com/homepage.htm 7) San Francisco Herb Company many supplies: http://www.sfherb.com/ 8) Cosmetic supply company - have some ingredients I haven't seen anywhere else: http://www.skincare-institute.com/order3.html 9) Basic ingredients plus some sal-free bases for shampoo, liquid soap, etc. Check the 'Ingredients' section to determine which are sal-free. The new formuli are generally sal-full, but some of the old ones look great: http://www.Essentialwholesale.com 10) A good selection of ingredients including Fragrance Oils. Just do a search on what you are looking for: http://www.frontiercoop.com/ (note that there is no '-' in coop, which will take you to a different company) 11) Good selection of ingredients and a good links section: http://www.rainbowmeadow.com/ 12) Pine Meadows Soap and
Candlemaking Supplies. A member relates that she's always had a good
experience with them in the past buying candle supplies. They also have a good
lye calculator for soap and recipes.
Makingcosmetics.com Out of USA Suppliers 1) Canada Cranberry Lane Great all-round site with all supplies, info, links, calculator, etc.: http://www.cranberrylane.com/ 2)Canada Another good all-round site with supplies, recipes, info and links: http://www.jentlesoaps.com/ 3) There are several other Canadian suppliers that you can find through following links, searching or surfing. 4) Other Europe pretty complete supplier, but site not totally translated to english yet so I am not sure of its extent - have many franchise stores throughout Europe where I get my specialty oils, butters and containers. http://www.spinnrad.com/ 5) Australia: Soap Naturally the Australian international forum for natural soap makers: http://www.soapnaturally.org/
The Soap Dish Forums Information Sites (Be sure to check out the US supplier sites for info. These often contain suppliers, links, recipes and other info) 1) Awesome site with tons of great info, including lists of mailing lists, recipes. Not to be missed! Be sure to print out the **Properties of Oils info.** http://www.ziggurat.org/soap/ 2) Australia: Soap Naturally the Australian international forum for natural soap makers: http://www.soapnaturally.org/ Soapmaking 101 (specific info for making soap)
1) Such a good informational site that I have to list it twice. http://www.ziggurat.org/soap/ 2) Be sure to scroll all the way down to find the good links, including the history of soap making. Her lye calculator is more lye heavy than the one at Mountain Sage, not necesarily a bad thing, but just be aware they are different: http://hometown.aol.com/oelaineo/history.html 3) Good basic instructions with pictures: http://www.soapcrafters.com/makebase.htm Fun Soap Sites for inspiration 2) tp://www.soapstuds.com/soap.htm Ingredients
& Where To Find Them Oils,
Waxes & Butters Low-Sal
Oils Other
Sal-FreeTM Ingredients Where To Find Them Pharmacies, health food stores or raw materials suppliers citric acid, rice bran oil, wheatgerm (*Low-sal) oil, shea butter, cocoa butter (sometimes), mineral oil, liquid paraffin, lanolin, Vitamins including panthenol. Beeswax try your local craft stores in the candle section and be sure to get the non-colored variety. Both white or natural colored are fine. I have also found cheap beeswax at specialty honey stores, though in New Zealand and Europe. In the US beeswax in small blocks is available in health food stores and co-ops, and online at raw materials suppliers. Vitamin C (Ascorbic acid) You can buy this in bulk for cheaper than buying capsules and emptying them. Panthenol (B5) is found in health food stores often, usually in little clear glass jars. It is a clear sticky gel. Cocoa butter bakery supply stores, candy makers. Stearic acid candle suppliers Fragrances; Essential oils are out for us. However, there is a huge selection of Fragrance oils (FO's) available from the soap making supply companies. Essential Oils are plant extractions and sal-full, but Fragrance Oils are combinations of largely synthetic chemicals and sometimes a few plants materials. These are just like fragrances in regular products and will not block. They may contain a small amount of sals, but are used in small enough quantities not to block. I personally stay away from mint, root beer (sweet birch) and citrus smells just to be extra safe, however and it wouldn't be a bad idea to find out from your supplier if the FO you are interested in contains a large proportion of plant materials. Artificial vanilla or vanillin is a great scent/flavor and is cheap and available everywhere, and I am sure you can find some others. Have some fun! (I just read a news story about a recently developed vanilla scented patch that is supposed to reduce chocolate cravings. One whiff and your cravings are gone. Perhaps using some yummy scents can help with the HG diet!) I will warn you the selection of fragrances is overwhelming and can quickly get expensive with fragrances you 'have to have'!! Note that Fragrance Oils (FO's) should not be used for flavouring, no matter HOW tasty they smell! They can contain some serious chemicals. Lip balm flavours can be purchased, and these follow the general sal rulings on flavours. You may have to ask the suppliers details about individual flavours and only use some for gifts, but I think cocoa butter and beeswax smell and taste great as is. Specialty shops may have FO's, but be aware that those made for potpourri, etc. are not approved for cosmetic use. Cosmetic fragrances also tend to smell much better and purer. If you venture into making soap from scratch, there are some FO's that are better than others. Some will disappear or cause your soap to seize. I will discuss that in more detail in the soap making section. Containers; I really find that packaging matters. I feel far more luxurious using something that comes out of an elegant container. I have even moved all my commercial products into matching nice containers, and it just FEELS nicer. There is a big variety of containers, including lip balm tubes available from on-line soap making suppliers and often at health food stores. If you want to feel pampered or that you are using something special, even though you made it yourself, it is worth a bit of investment. And, of course you will reuse your containers. It can turn some of your efforts into great gifts too! Tools For mixing I am partial to my stick blender. It is one of those 'milkshake' blenders that you stand upright in a bowl or pot. I wouldn't make soap without it and it makes blending lotions a breeze. Bridget suggests a little Cuisinart style food processor for blending. She uses one for everything that requires mixing. (Though it is not recommended for soap.) It's cheap, they're around $20 now, and it's enclosed, so no mess, and blends at high speed. Things emulsify much better than they used to! It's just a little bit of a mess cleaning it up. She wipes it out with a paper towel(s) first to cut down on the mess in the sink. Making Lip Balms & Massage Butters
Balms are made by melting and mixing together oils and waxes. Always use a double boiler since some oils have a low flash point (the point at which they burst into flame). Heat GENTLY and SLOWLY, watching your mixture constantly and stirring occasionally until everything has melted. Do not over heat. Be sure to be very careful and aware of what you are doing, especially with Fibrofog. Have baking soda and a pot lid ready and handy in case of fire, and cold water in case of burns. You won't need them if you heat carefully, but with Fibrofog I find it helpful to plan ahead as much as possible. At this point remove from the heat and stir in any additional ingredients: flavorings, cosmetic colorings, (a tiny bit of sal free lipstick does the trick), and Vitamin E (sal-free). *Never pour melted waxes down the sink as they will clog your pipes. When all is melted simply pour into clean containers. Make sure all your tools and containers are as clean as possible. Wash well, in a dishwasher if possible, being careful about heat and plastic. (I once ruined some great lip balm pots boiling them to sterilize.) Sterilize with alcohol (vodka can work here) by soaking the surfaces for several minutes. Lip balm tubes, as well as other containers, can be bought from a variety of soap making suppliers listed in the websites post. You may also be able to find a local source. For tubes, drop or pour enough balm into the container to cover the bottom screw and let it set (this will only take a few seconds). You can use a new, clean, plastic medicine dropper to do this, but it isn't necessary. Then, simply pour or drop the remaining balm into the tube, making a dome shape on the top if you wish by adding small amounts once the main part has hardened somewhat. Sometimes the main section will cool with a small hole in the centre. Simply fill this with a bit more melted balm. Alternatively, you can simply pour the balm into a small lip pot. Your balm will take several hours to completely set, so don't worry if it is a little soft at first. Recipes Balms and lotions all follow a general formula, which can then be altered or played around with to create new recipes. The following are good basic balm recipes, but don't be afraid to play around. If you don't like the end result you can always remelt and add more of something. A few people may be allergic to cocoa butter, and for them balms can be made with beeswax and shea butter, or simply beeswax and oils. Lotion bars are another easy possibility, though since I have no experience with them I haven't included any here. There are several recipes on the recipe sites though (www.the-sage.com for example). Basic Balm
Ingredients Cocoa butter: Makes balms hard, but softens quickly when applied to warm skin. Soothing, healing and moisturizing. Wonderful chocolate smell. Shea butter (Low-SalTM): Great for moisturizing. Too much can make a balm grainy so be careful with proportions, and do not let it get too hot. Some people prefer a balm without and others with, so experiment for yourself. Liquid oils: soy (Sal-NegTM) mineral, etc. Vit E: Slows oxidation of the oils and nourishes the lips Mountain Sage (www.the-sage.com) has a good general lip balm recipe that you can easily adapt to be sal-free. I really like the end result. Follow the 'recipes' links. Easy Does It Lip
Balm grated cocoa butter, grated beeswax, liquid oil. Melt together as per previous instructions. Variations 1) add a bit of Vit E 2) more wax makes a harder balm, less wax makes a softer balm. Harder is best for tubes, softer is more like a gloss. 3) add a bit of artifical flavouring. Cocoa butter begs for artificial vanilla or vanillan, coffee or orange. 4) add a bit of sal-free lip stick to create a lip gloss. Basic Lip Balm 1 part (by weight) beeswax, 1 parts liquid oils Bridget's Lip Balm Melt together until melted/blended in double boiler, mixing in powders well if using them. Pour into sterile containers and let set. Gretchen's
favorite balm Melt in double boiler, when liquified, stir briefly and pour into containers. If you like it a little harder, just use less petroleum jelly This will moisturize, but stays hard enough that if you have the container in your pocket, it won't melt.
Massage
Butter 2.5 oz soy (Sal-NegTM) oil, 2 Vit E capsules, 1/4 oz cocoa butter, 1/4 oz beeswax. Melt together and pour into sterile containers as per general instructions. Remember cautions. Measuring does not have to be terribly accurate, so just do your best if you do not have a scale. Refrigerate. Variations: 1) Other liquid oils: mineral (with mineral oil/paraffin you don't need to be as concerned about refrigeration). 2) Add some fragrance, though I like the soft scent of the cocoa butter and beeswax. 3) Add a small bit of lanolin (if you are not prone to sensitivities or allergies) or shea butter (Low-Sal TM).4) Increase the beeswax (double) to get a thicker wax-like cream, ideal for really rough 'after-working' hands or feet before bed. It will not disappear into the skin, but by morning your hands and feet will be soft and silky. 5) This is fine without the cocoa butter if you don't have any on hand. Just increase the beeswax. Massage Oil Hints: Combine Aveeno Bath, Shower Oil and plain baby oil.
Lotions & Creams Note that Tina at MS has specific instructions for the use of Germaben II which must be followed carefully, and of course MS and other soap making companies sell it as well as the parabens. As always, carefully follow all safety instructions! Always!! There are too many sad stories that start with, "Just this once I won't...." By the way, for measuring and dispensing the Germaben II or other chemicals, I use a dedicated dropper, keeping it in a tightly sealed ziplock bag between uses. Basic Ingredients Water: Distilled water is always the best option and can be purchased at your local pharmacy or grocery store. Oils: Oils can be anything sal-free, liquid or solid, and have been discussed in other posts. Note that oils/waxes which are liquid at room temperature will disappear into the skin more readily than those which are solid or waxy. Most sal-full oils you see in recipes elsewhere can be substituted with sal-free ones, just be aware of the different consistencies of oils so that if you substitute with an oils with different characteristics, you will get a different result. Emulsifier: The last necessary ingredient in lotions/creams is an emulsifier; something that can stick the water and oils together to create a stable mixture. The most common ones are borax, beeswax, and emulsifying wax. Other: Other common ingredients include glycerin which will draw water to the skin and is a lovely ingredient for lotions, citric acid which can help preserve and lower the pH, stearic acid which thickens, and fragrances. Again, I refer you to the MS website for a thorough discussion of each. Remember that you can add any sal-free vitamins to make your own lotion with Vit E, C or A. Process: There are several potential ways of making lotions/creams. First, clean and sterilize all your equipment...everything that will touch the lotion/cream. This is very important even though it sometimes takes as long as to make the product itself. You will never reproduce the sterile conditions under which commercial products are made, but do your best. The preservatives will do the rest. Second, measure the ingredients. Get this as accurate as you can, but there is some leeway for error or variation within which your lotion/cream will still work. Again, you have to decide on your style of lotion/cream making. I happen to be a little-of-this-and-a-lot-of-that cook and am happy to get something a little different each time. Most on-line recipes will list measurements by weight, which is most accurate and give you the most reproducable results. Get it as close as you can, but the dire cautions for weighing exactly pertain mostly to soap. It may be a bit difficult for some of the lower proportion ingredients however. For instance, I add my Germaben II with a dropper, sustituting a volume measurement for a weight one and 'hope for the best.' This would not be appropriate if I were making my lotion for anyone but myself. I like my fragrances very subtle so add them a drop at a time. Some are much more powerful than others so you have to be careful to not get it too strong. 1) One can heat up the oils (carefully over a double boiler) and the other ingredients separately, and then add the other ingreds to the oils while stirring, whisking or blending until it emulisifies. Emulsification is the blending of the oils and water into a stable 'cream.' Just like making hollandaise sauce, only easier. 2) Alternatively (my personal method), you can just throw all the ingreds together and heat them up (carefully with all the cautions mentioned in the lip balm post). When the solid ingreds are melted give it a few bursts with a *stick blender (see below) or other blender. Let it cool and every so often give it another shot. Be aware that you may get a bit of splattering from the blender, so be careful. This method also can work without a stick blender, but will require more vigorous stirring. My one attempt to do it without a blender was a bit frustrating and I wondered if it would ever emulsify. The blender makes it easy and no-fail, and also prevents bits of wax from hardening before full emulsification which can create a grainy texture. It is also perfect for those of us with limited energy or concentration. Keep in mind that you can always reheat your mixture and re-emulsify. Once it has cooled enough add your preservative and fragrance (if any). Pour into your sterilized containers. See the previous lip balm post for cleanliness guidelines. *A stick blender is one of those upright milkshake blenders that you just stick into the pot or bowl. Note that other types of blenders and mixing equipment can be used for lotions, but not soap. Be aware that bubbles provide a perfect environment for moulds and bacteria to grow. My stick blender was my best investment in making my own products. It is not necessary, but does make life easier. Recipes I tried MS's Granny's Favorite Lotion, but changed the liquid oil to something sal-free and reduced the Germaben II. It was wonderful! A thick rich lotion. Tina's instructions for creating your own recipes are good too, though I have to rework some of mine before I send them to you all. My worst mistake with lotion so far was to use too many solid at room temperature ingredients, which made the lotion kind of sticky. Oils that are liquid at room temperature disappear better into the skin. Having said that, shea and cocoa butter are wonderful sal-free ingredients for lotions. Just don't use too much. If you want to be adventurous and make lotions with specific characteristics, have a read of the properties of oils website info. Just don't get too jealous of all the wonderful oils we can't use! If you want to play around with them you can always make things for friends. Sunscreens Zinc Oxide:
It is difficult to apply as it is very thick. If you are very pale it may
produce a pale lustre. Pharmaceutical grade
Emu
oil literature states that it has
a natural SPF of 15, and is an effective carrier for other
elements. Maybe one could blend it with some Emu oil carefully in order to
not interfere with the SPF too much. Sterilizing:
I wash everything in hot soapy
water, rinse it well, then let 99.9% alcohol sit in or on the things I am going
to use for a few minutes. It takes sometime to dry afterwards to be sure no
alcohol remains to cause a smell in the lotion." Cindy: The kind people at the website below created their own company that provides retail cosmetic ingredients, containers, you name it, to create your own makeup, sunscreen, moisturizers and more. They provide full disclosure on all their ingredients. The Somerset Company have been very helpful in answering all my questions. Shipments were received on a timely basis (usually within 1 week or less). Their website has suggested recipes and I've developed a Sal-FreeTM sunscreen recipe using shea butter (Low-SalTM) and Emu Oil as the base. It is equally waterproof as a Coppertone or other sport cream I used in the past. The SPF factor is based on the amount of the micronized powder you add to the recipe. My recipe is this: 1 small jar of the
shea butter Have two sterilized plastic jar containers ready to hold the finished product (these are also available on the website) Slowly melt the shea butter (Low-SalTM) in a stainless steel sauce pan. Add the Emu Oil at any point during the melting phase. Carefully blend the Titanium powder (it is so powder-fine it will create a dust cloud and you don't want to breath it in) so, take you time. Once blended, allow to cool to a point it will not melt the plastic storage jars. Pour into the jars, allow to completely cool, you'll have a wonderful tanning butter. If you prefer to create a liquid, order bottles and add more Emu oil to liquefy the finished product. I don't recommend this because of the cost of the Emu oil. I do know that the butter product is very water proof. Apply it just as often as you would your usual tanning products. If you're in the water, reapply as necessary. I've come to enjoy the moisturizing benefits of this recipe, too! Good luck. Who knows, I just might try making my own foundations and lipsticks. The website has the ingredients broken down to a level where we can determine if the ingredient is Sal-FullTM or Sal-FreeTM. Don't hesitate to ask the company what you can use as a substitute. They are very helpful and quick to answer
questions. Since I am in Europe and can't yet get my
hands on this concentrate (shipping and importing costs are
incredible) I will have to deal with this section theoretically. Please post any of
your successful concoctions! To start I refer you to http://www.chemistrystore.com/ www.Essentialwholesale.com and Auroma have several different ready made base formulations for body wash, handwash, shampoo and bubble bath. The Chemistry Store ones are concentrated and more basic, while the other ones are pretty much ready made and only require you to add any special ingredients you might want such as fragrance, oils or vitamins. I wish I were able to try each of these out and let you know what they are like, but will have to leave that up to you. The Chemistry Store has several different
formulations available, all at very reasonable cost. You can choose to
order by the gallon (that is a LOT of shampoo when you dilute it), or in trial
packs of quart sizes of 2 or 4 different concentrates. Just keep in mind
that you are working with chemicals here. They are the ones normally
used in shampoo/detergent preparations, but be careful with them. If
you are really adventurous they also have some formulas for making even
these from scratch. What To Add: These websites also have some suggested recipes and explanations for using their products so I will not go into details here. With a bit of easy surfing you can learn most of what you need to know. To the Auroma products you need only add ingredients that you want. They are good basic products already. To the Chemistry store products, you add distilled water, a fragrance if desired, colour if desired, salt if you feel a need to change the viscosity, perhaps a preservative, and possibly citric acid to adjust the pH. Likely you will also want to add conditioning agents. (All of these additives and pH testing papers can be bought from the various soap making suppliers, and some from the Chemistry Store itself. Websites were given in an earlier post.) Please click here to e-mail me with any submissions of ideas and recipes! I welcome them! Soap
& Shampoo From Scratch A couple of good books are the following,
though of course there are many more The Natural Soap Book Susan Miller Cavitch It is easy to create your own sal-free soap recipes. The websites we have listed contain one or more with descriptions of various oils and directions for creating your own recipes. Mountain Sages (www.the-sage.com) lye calculator makes it extremely easy. Have fun and remember that I warned you.....Soap making is addictive! Brief Description of Some *Sal-Free Soap Making Ingredients Tallow creates a good basic hard bar of white soap. Some lather, quick trace. I use it as a part of all my soap oils. On my soap list someone reported on a brief experiment she did with her relatives, having them blind test a few of her soaps. Those that everyone chose as numbers one and two, contained tallow. The all vegie soaps followed in various orders. You can make perfectly good soap out of vegetarian ingredients though. Liquid soy (Sal-NegTM) oil a lovely cheap conditioning oil. Little lather, soft bar, long trace. Best in combination with other oils such as tallow. I LIKE my gentle soy (Sal-NegTM) soaps!
Sal-safe as up to 10% of base oils since it is rinsed off quickly. Best in small proportions anyway because it tends to create harsh soap. Shea butter (Low-SalTM) a great superfatting oil added at trace (melted). Wonderfully conditioning. Expensive, but a little goes a long way. I use about 20-30g per kilo of base oils. Cocoa butter a wonderful luxurious soap making fat. To superfat use about 1oz per pound of oils added at trace (melted). Stearic acid makes soap harder and trace quicker. Almost a must if you only use the liquid oils that are available to us. Not need though if you use tallow or lard. Oatmeal ground. Great for exfoliating and adding texture to soap. Fragrances any synthetic fragrance oils, though would be safest to stay away from mint, root beer, or citrus smells. Many companies sell fragrance oils, but those from Sweetcakes are reputed to be among the best for making soap. Colorants mineral pigments, clays and dyes are all *Sal-Free Recipes Kirstin's Basic *Sal-Free Soap (A hard white gentle soap-great for adding
colors and fragrance. I find that it is has enough lather, even without any
500g tallow, 500g liquid soy (Sal-NegTM) oil, 20g shea butter (Low-SalTM) melted and added at trace 375mL water (or adjusted to your own requirements- more water is better for adding fragrances, but increases setting and drying time) 130.68g NaOH (sodium hydroxide) 7% superfatted based on MS lye calculator Making Liquid Soap From Hard NaOH Bars -hard soap makes ALOT of liquid soap - I got over 11L of liquid from one kg batch of tallow soap - START SMALL and have lots of water handy! Be aware that the resulting liquid soap will feel kind of 'slimy' and a bit different from the liquid detergents that you are used to. With enough water though, it produces a good product that dispenses well. -grate your soap and place in a large bowl or pot (a salad shooter works well for large quantities) -if there is no animal fat in your soap pour in some milk -cover the rest with distilled water -cover and place in oven (100degrees F) or in a slow cooker -leave until melted and stir gently-you can check and stir every hour or so - it can take several hours to completely melt -if your hard soap was not cured before you melted it, leave the liquid soap to sit for a couple of days, THEN add your fragrance -if your hard soap was cured, add fragrance and color and use immediately -add enough water to reach the desired consistency.
Anon: Get a plastic box with a tight-fitting lid. Fill it with folded paper towels. Mix up a very diluted solution of tap water and Johnson's No More Tears baby shampoo (ensure it contains no aloe or plant extracts). Pour it over the paper towels and put the lid on to let them absorb all the liquid. You can put them in a baggie and take them along when you go out. Lou Ann: Sift 2 cups cornstarch with 1/2 cup baking soda through a colander. Put in empty powder container and you have great foot, underarm and any other body part refreshing powder. I have found that lotion moisturizes my underarms and the "powder" keeps me smelling and feeling fresh-and since I started using guai I noticed stronger body odor so this is great! removed corn (Sal-mod*) oil from the suggested oils due to our concern with salsRowena: For those who prefer to use natural, home made toiletries, substitutes for talc are cornstarch, arrowroot powder and fuller's earth. Mixed with baking soda and natural fragrance the homemade powders serve as well as the Talc. Click here for information about Talc. Milk Powders make good facial exfoliates/cleansers
Diana~Illinois - Face
Laura - Lip exfoliator (to remove dead skin on lips)
Laura - Sea Salt Body Scrub (Do not use after shaving as it will burn. Be careful not to slip in the bath tub or shower because of the oil. Keep water from entering the container because salt will dissolve.
Simple: Just dip a wet brush in b/soda. Mix up a paste: Add a little baking soda (bi-carb), maybe about a teaspoon, to a tiny jar. Next, slowly add a little water till it forms a paste consistency to your liking and then add a few drops of peroxide. If you want to flavour it go with an artificial flavor to be on the safe side.
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